Trouble installing on windows 7

Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 02:53:51 von William Foster

Hi,

I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install script appears
to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:

Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
The program features you selected are being installed.

Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.

Status:



I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.

Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
debug what is going wrong?

Thanks.

-William

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RE: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 04:52:02 von Wesley Stupar

Hi William,

Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what little solace it
is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?

Wes Stupar

-----Original Message-----
From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
To: users@httpd.apache.org
Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7

Hi,

I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install script appears
to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:

Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
The program features you selected are being installed.

Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.

Status:



I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.

Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
debug what is going wrong?

Thanks.

-William

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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Project.
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org



------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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Re: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 05:07:28 von William Foster

Hi Wes,

Well it was a free copy, so no money to Microsoft on this one.

I figured out the issue. There was a hidden dialog underneath the
install shield dialog asking if I wanted to grant permission. Once I
discovered that and granted permission it installed fine.

Now I'm facing another issue. I can get to localhost:80 but when I
try to access from another computer inside the router, it does not
work. I wonder if port 80 is being blocked by default in Windows 7?

Thanks.

-William


On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Wesley Stupar wrot=
e:
> Hi William,
>
> Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what little solace it
> is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
> community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
> Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?
>
> Wes Stupar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
> To: users@httpd.apache.org
> Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
> recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
> but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install script appears
> to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:
>
> =A0Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
> =A0The program features you selected are being installed.
>
> =A0Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
> Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.
>
> =A0Status:
>
> =A0
>
> I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.
>
> Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
> debug what is going wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -William
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
> Project.
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> =A0 " =A0 from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project=
..
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> =A0 " =A0 from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 05:28:55 von William Foster

Hello,

I figured it out, the issue was that Windows 7 firewall was blocking
port 80 by default. I added a rule to allow port 80 and now it works
correctly.

Thanks.

-William


On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:07 PM, William Foster wrote:
> Hi Wes,
>
> Well it was a free copy, so no money to Microsoft on this one.
>
> I figured out the issue. =A0There was a hidden dialog underneath the
> install shield dialog asking if I wanted to grant permission. =A0Once I
> discovered that and granted permission it installed fine.
>
> Now I'm facing another issue. =A0I can get to localhost:80 but when I
> try to access from another computer inside the router, it does not
> work. =A0I wonder if port 80 is being blocked by default in Windows 7?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -William
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Wesley Stupar wr=
ote:
>> Hi William,
>>
>> Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what little solace it
>> is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
>> community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
>> Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?
>>
>> Wes Stupar
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
>> To: users@httpd.apache.org
>> Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
>> recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
>> but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install script appears
>> to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:
>>
>> =A0Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
>> =A0The program features you selected are being installed.
>>
>> =A0Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
>> Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.
>>
>> =A0Status:
>>
>> =A0
>>
>> I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.
>>
>> Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
>> debug what is going wrong?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -William
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
>> Project.
>> See for more info.
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> =A0 " =A0 from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
>> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Projec=
t.
>> See for more info.
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> =A0 " =A0 from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>>
>>
>

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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Re: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 12:07:01 von Daniel Reinhardt

Wesley,

If you have nothing to contribute to the help of this user then do not reply.
Your remarks are rather trollish, and quite frankly unwarranted. You in so many
words is exactly why I hate the Open Source community with a passion. Your
drive to force another operating system onto another user is rather immature,
and quite frankly very unprofessional. I have left user to user lists due to
such behavior. Apache is Apache regardless of what OS it is ran on, so please
offer up some assistance instead of linux fanboish attitude.

Next time think before you post, and act with a little bit more professionalism.

One pissed off multi-operating system user,
Daniel
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Wesley Stupar"
Sent: 07 January, 2010 3:52
To:
Subject: RE: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7

> Hi William,
>
> Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what little solace it
> is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
> community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
> Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?
>
> Wes Stupar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
> To: users@httpd.apache.org
> Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
> recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
> but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install script appears
> to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:
>
> Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
> The program features you selected are being installed.
>
> Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
> Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.
>
> Status:
>
>
>
> I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.
>
> Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
> debug what is going wrong?
>
> Thanks.
>
> -William
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
> Project.
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>




------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 13:49:19 von Res

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010, Daniel Reinhardt wrote:

> Wesley,
>
> many words is exactly why I hate the Open Source community with a passion.
> Your drive to force another operating system onto another user is rather
> immature, and quite frankly very unprofessional. I have left user to user


and these comments of yours are just as trollish as his, please take your
girly bitch sessions OFF this list, we do not care for it.

--
Res

"What does Windows have that Linux doesn't?" - One hell of a lot of bugs!

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
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See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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RE: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 14:13:46 von Boyle Owen

> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:07 AM
> To: users@httpd.apache.org; compaps@roadrunner.com
> Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
>=20
> Hi Wes,
>=20
> Well it was a free copy, so no money to Microsoft on this one.
>=20
> I figured out the issue. There was a hidden dialog underneath the
> install shield dialog asking if I wanted to grant permission. Once I
> discovered that and granted permission it installed fine.

This sounds like User Account Control - it appeared with Vista. You're =
going to get very familiar with it if you are maintaining a Windows =
system ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control

Rgds,
Owen Boyle
Disclaimer: Any disclaimer attached to this message may be ignored.=20

>=20
> Now I'm facing another issue. I can get to localhost:80 but when I
> try to access from another computer inside the router, it does not
> work. I wonder if port 80 is being blocked by default in Windows 7?
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -William
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Wesley Stupar=20
> wrote:
> > Hi William,
> >
> > Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what=20
> little solace it
> > is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
> > community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
> > Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?
> >
> > Wes Stupar
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
> > To: users@httpd.apache.org
> > Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
> > recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
> > but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install=20
> script appears
> > to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:
> >
> > Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
> > The program features you selected are being installed.
> >
> > Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
> > Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.
> >
> > Status:
> >
> >
> >
> > I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.
> >
> > Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
> > debug what is going wrong?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -William
> >
> >=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
> > Project.
> > See for more info.
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP=20
> Server Project.
> > See for more info.
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> >
> >
>=20
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP=20
> Server Project.
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>=20
>=20
=20
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain =
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. If you =
receive this message in error, please notify the sender urgently and =
then immediately delete the message and any copies of it from your =
system. Please also immediately destroy any hardcopies of the message.=20
The sender's company reserves the right to monitor all e-mail =
communications through their networks.

------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
See for more info.
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
" from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
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Re: Trouble installing on windows 7

am 07.01.2010 22:09:16 von Jonathan Zuckerman

--00504502964d0511f5047c997ddf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Boyle Owen wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:07 AM
> > To: users@httpd.apache.org; compaps@roadrunner.com
> > Subject: Re: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
> >
> > Hi Wes,
> >
> > Well it was a free copy, so no money to Microsoft on this one.
> >
> > I figured out the issue. There was a hidden dialog underneath the
> > install shield dialog asking if I wanted to grant permission. Once I
> > discovered that and granted permission it installed fine.
>
> This sounds like User Account Control - it appeared with Vista. You're
> going to get very familiar with it if you are maintaining a Windows system
> ;-)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control
>
> Rgds,
> Owen Boyle
> Disclaimer: Any disclaimer attached to this message may be ignored.
>
> >
> > Now I'm facing another issue. I can get to localhost:80 but when I
> > try to access from another computer inside the router, it does not
> > work. I wonder if port 80 is being blocked by default in Windows 7?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -William
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Wesley Stupar
> > wrote:
> > > Hi William,
> > >
> > > Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what
> > little solace it
> > > is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user
> > > community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the
> > > Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?
> > >
> > > Wes Stupar
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: William Foster [mailto:williamkf@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM
> > > To: users@httpd.apache.org
> > > Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine
> > > recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows XP,
> > > but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install
> > script appears
> > > to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:
> > >
> > > Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14
> > > The program features you selected are being installed.
> > >
> > > Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache HTTP
> > > Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.
> > >
> > > Status:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.
> > >
> > > Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do I
> > > debug what is going wrong?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -William
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server
> > > Project.
> > > See for more info.
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP
> > Server Project.
> > > See for more info.
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP
> > Server Project.
> > See for more info.
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
> confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. If you receive
> this message in error, please notify the sender urgently and then
> immediately delete the message and any copies of it from your system. Please
> also immediately destroy any hardcopies of the message.
> The sender's company reserves the right to monitor all e-mail
> communications through their networks.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server Project.
> See for more info.
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> " from the digest: users-digest-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@httpd.apache.org
>
>
should probably let this rest but I can't resist:

>and these comments of yours are just as trollish as his,
> please take your girly bitch sessions OFF this list, we do not care for
it.

Res I wanted to thank you for your statement, I've been trying to convince
my girlfriend that "bitch sessions" are intrinsically "girly" and this
testimony from an expert on apache will go a long way towards finally
convincing her!

--00504502964d0511f5047c997ddf
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 5:13 AM, Boyle Owen =
<Owen.Boyl=
e@six-group.com
>
wrote:
style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

> -----Original Message-----

> From: William Foster [mailto:wi=
lliamkf@gmail.com
]

This sounds like User Account Control - it appeared with Vista. You&#=
39;re going to get very familiar with it if you are maintaining a Windows s=
ystem ;-)



ank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control



Rgds,

Owen Boyle

Disclaimer: Any disclaimer attached to this message may be ignored.



>

> Now I'm facing another iss=
ue.  I can get to localhost:80 but when I

> try to access from another computer inside the router, it does not

> work.  I wonder if port 80 is being blocked by default in Windows=
7?

>

> Thanks.

>

> -William

>

>

> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Wesley Stupar

> <compaps@roadrunner.com a>> wrote:

> > Hi William,

> >

> > Sorry to say, I cannot help on this one. But for what

> little solace it

> > is, I believe that Windows 7 is a sham and an affront to the user=


> > community. It is simply an attempt to gather more money into the<=
br>
> > Microsoft coffers. Have you considered Linux?

> >

> > Wes Stupar

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: William Foster [mailto:
m">williamkf@gmail.com]

> > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 5:54 PM

> > To: users@httpd.apache.=
org


> > Subject: [users@httpd] Trouble installing on windows 7

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I am trying to install Apache HTTP Server v2.2.14 on a machine >
> > recently upgraded to Windows 7. Apache worked fine under Windows =
XP,

> > but when I go to install this in Windows 7, the install

> script appears

> > to hang. In the install wizard dialog it states:

> >

> >  Installing Apache HTTP Server 2.2.14

> >  The program features you selected are being installed.

> >

> >  Please wait while the Installation Wizard installs Apache H=
TTP

> > Server 2.2.14. This may take several minutes.

> >

> >  Status:

> >

> >  <progress bar with thin sliver at left edge that makes n=
o progress>

> >

> > I tried with and without openSSL support, both fail the same way.=


> >

> > Is this install script known to work on Windows 7? If so, how do =
I

> > debug what is going wrong?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> > -William

> >

> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------<=
br>
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP Server=


> > Project.

> > See <URL: rget=3D"_blank">http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more inf=
o.

> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ..apache.org">users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org

> >   "   from the digest: est-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org">users-digest-unsubscribe@h ttpd.apache.org=


> > For additional commands, e-mail: pd.apache.org">users-help@httpd.apache.org

> >

> >

> >

> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------<=
br>
> > The official User-To-User support forum of the Apache HTTP

> Server Project.

> > See <URL: rget=3D"_blank">http://httpd.apache.org/userslist.html> for more inf=
o.

> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ..apache.org">users-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org

> >   "   from the digest: est-unsubscribe@httpd.apache.org">users-digest-unsubscribe@h ttpd.apache.org=


> > For additional commands, e-mail: pd.apache.org">users-help@httpd.apache.org

> >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------<=
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should probably let this rest=
but I can't resist:

e-span" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-co=
llapse: collapse; ">>and these comments of yours are just as trollish as=
his,


if; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">> please take your gir=
ly bitch sessions OFF this list, we do not care for it.




Res I wanted to thank you for your statement, I've been tryi=
ng to convince my girlfriend that "bitch sessions" are intrinsica=
lly "girly" and this testimony from an expert on apache will go a=
long way towards finally convincing her!





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